TeddyKoochu
01-15 04:48 PM
"What about the legitimate people who didnt buy the visa and due to USCIS, struck in GC black hole...? Do you have any way to segregate bad apple from good one. You just want to throw the baby with bath water. Period."
U tell how USCIS should segregate bad apple with good one ? Should they allow the status quo because good apple will be affected ?
Buddy I believe you are being too harsh. Status Quo is never a great idea, however please consider the following scenario's you will realize the larger issue, no disrespect meant to you. Nobody is a fan of consulting only companies including those who work for them.
1) In case of cancer, chemotherapy or radiotherapy is not applied to the entire body but just the affected part and the dosage is carefully measured not to cause any harm to the good portion howsoever small it maybe.
2) In a state if a certain area is bad does not mean that every person or everything is bad in that area and the only cure is to eliminate everything.
3) In a field in a given area if some crops are infected the idea is that you try to weed out just them without harming the good crops or the soil.
What you are implying is just eliminate a practice right away because the rules of the game suddenly changed one fine day. Your intentions seem to be correct however in your blind justice you are forgetting that there are many good brilliant apples as well (In fact more good than bad) and their families who work hard everyday, have been doing so for many years waiting for their GC and are probably partially stale already. Your notion of justice, correctness and change will kill / finish them as well. Sometimes idealism in reality is not as good as it looks like when just thinking.
U tell how USCIS should segregate bad apple with good one ? Should they allow the status quo because good apple will be affected ?
Buddy I believe you are being too harsh. Status Quo is never a great idea, however please consider the following scenario's you will realize the larger issue, no disrespect meant to you. Nobody is a fan of consulting only companies including those who work for them.
1) In case of cancer, chemotherapy or radiotherapy is not applied to the entire body but just the affected part and the dosage is carefully measured not to cause any harm to the good portion howsoever small it maybe.
2) In a state if a certain area is bad does not mean that every person or everything is bad in that area and the only cure is to eliminate everything.
3) In a field in a given area if some crops are infected the idea is that you try to weed out just them without harming the good crops or the soil.
What you are implying is just eliminate a practice right away because the rules of the game suddenly changed one fine day. Your intentions seem to be correct however in your blind justice you are forgetting that there are many good brilliant apples as well (In fact more good than bad) and their families who work hard everyday, have been doing so for many years waiting for their GC and are probably partially stale already. Your notion of justice, correctness and change will kill / finish them as well. Sometimes idealism in reality is not as good as it looks like when just thinking.
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vinrobo
07-21 01:56 PM
I had my first encounter 10 years ago while in India. Escaped the scene and felt bad that time about it.
But now I have become good at it and just let them politely know about my policy of not "owning a business".
But now I have become good at it and just let them politely know about my policy of not "owning a business".
ujjwal_p
05-11 05:00 PM
I completely agree with you.
As a Tamil, I too carry the Indian passport with shame and can't wait to see the day when I become a US citizen.
Let me be the first to say, all the best to you to get the US citizenship fast... and more importantly good riddance... And all the best for Americans to get a model citizen like you. By the way, I hope you do know about the oath you need to take to become an American. Hope you do that sincerely and are not narrow-minded then.
As a Tamil, I too carry the Indian passport with shame and can't wait to see the day when I become a US citizen.
Let me be the first to say, all the best to you to get the US citizenship fast... and more importantly good riddance... And all the best for Americans to get a model citizen like you. By the way, I hope you do know about the oath you need to take to become an American. Hope you do that sincerely and are not narrow-minded then.
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GCKaMaara
05-13 09:59 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_sri_lanka_civil_war
What a shame ! Yesterday only UPA Govt. issued a statement that because of their intensive efforts SL govt. has stopped bombing.
Congress/ Sonia is seeing this as personal which shouldn't have been the case.
Countries like Japan, Norway have condemned these attacks by SL govt/ sending diplomats and our UPA govt. PM says we can't do anything !
See the poor foreign policy by UPA govt. - Nepal has fallen to Maoist- backed by China, Taliban are rising as never before, LeT has become more stronger, Bangladesh soldiers are killing CRF personals on the boarder and India is home for more 2 Carores Bangladeshi now, China is disputing Arunachalam...and many more.
Agreed.
What a shame ! Yesterday only UPA Govt. issued a statement that because of their intensive efforts SL govt. has stopped bombing.
Congress/ Sonia is seeing this as personal which shouldn't have been the case.
Countries like Japan, Norway have condemned these attacks by SL govt/ sending diplomats and our UPA govt. PM says we can't do anything !
See the poor foreign policy by UPA govt. - Nepal has fallen to Maoist- backed by China, Taliban are rising as never before, LeT has become more stronger, Bangladesh soldiers are killing CRF personals on the boarder and India is home for more 2 Carores Bangladeshi now, China is disputing Arunachalam...and many more.
Agreed.
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alterego
10-04 05:50 PM
I have seen all sorts of posting on both this forum as well as others supporting the process of labour substitution.
This issue needs careful analysis. Just as a knife can be used for a useful purpose of slicing bread, but also for the criminal purpose of committing homicide, so can the LC be used by the employer to truly get a desperately needed skilled employee or to sell it to the highest bidder.
In the former case it is appropriate whoever the beneficiary and however recently he has arrived. In the latter scenario it is neither fair nor appropriate.
Much of the problem as I see it here is on the basis of the basic abuse in the system. In my view this provision in the immigration law leads to more abuse on the part of employers, lawyers and opportunist immigrants. All this to the detriment of fair minded law abiding immigrants.
I have wrestled with this issue a lot. In my situation, I am in a situation of relative comfort. I have an approved 140 in a very stable job with pending 485s for me and my wife albeit with very recent PDs which I am not about to see become current for years in the current scenario.
My wife is in an area of quite good demand where there are all sorts of substitute labours floating about. Technically, I could have her take the gamble with the security and back up my situation provides.
Yet I have not done so (to date). Yet I am not foolish enough to make any long term bets either. I am an idealist but also a realist. I have much to gain or potentially lose by the scrapping of this provision. Hence I consider myself neutral and able to take a neutral view on this issue.
My feeling is this thing is wrong as it currently stands. Yet I will not promise not to use it if the powers that be are stupid enough to let is stand as it is currently stated.
That is my best asssessment of this situation.
This issue needs careful analysis. Just as a knife can be used for a useful purpose of slicing bread, but also for the criminal purpose of committing homicide, so can the LC be used by the employer to truly get a desperately needed skilled employee or to sell it to the highest bidder.
In the former case it is appropriate whoever the beneficiary and however recently he has arrived. In the latter scenario it is neither fair nor appropriate.
Much of the problem as I see it here is on the basis of the basic abuse in the system. In my view this provision in the immigration law leads to more abuse on the part of employers, lawyers and opportunist immigrants. All this to the detriment of fair minded law abiding immigrants.
I have wrestled with this issue a lot. In my situation, I am in a situation of relative comfort. I have an approved 140 in a very stable job with pending 485s for me and my wife albeit with very recent PDs which I am not about to see become current for years in the current scenario.
My wife is in an area of quite good demand where there are all sorts of substitute labours floating about. Technically, I could have her take the gamble with the security and back up my situation provides.
Yet I have not done so (to date). Yet I am not foolish enough to make any long term bets either. I am an idealist but also a realist. I have much to gain or potentially lose by the scrapping of this provision. Hence I consider myself neutral and able to take a neutral view on this issue.
My feeling is this thing is wrong as it currently stands. Yet I will not promise not to use it if the powers that be are stupid enough to let is stand as it is currently stated.
That is my best asssessment of this situation.
alisa
02-18 12:51 PM
I can only give examples from personal life. My personal examples lead me to believe that a lot of people, though aware of retrogression, are unaware of what it really means.
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
I respect your opinion ...but I refuse to believe that people are ignorant...
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
I respect your opinion ...but I refuse to believe that people are ignorant...
more...
gagbag
07-03 09:56 PM
http://news.google.com/news?tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS219US220&ncl=1117797588&hl=en&scoring=n
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Sunx_2004
07-29 11:56 AM
Here is my case, Company A filed Labor GC for me, Labor filed 04/2004, I-140 approved 06/07, I485 filed 07/07.
Company A got aquired by company B in 11/07, Company B filed 3 year extension on H1B based on approved I-140 approved H1B.
Now company B filed amendment to approved I 140- My questions-
Is my I 140 still aproved or it will start all over?
I am planning to change the company coming October, Can I change the company at this stage. Will it affect my AOS in adverse way.
What
I need to take care of if I want to switch the job.
Company A got aquired by company B in 11/07, Company B filed 3 year extension on H1B based on approved I-140 approved H1B.
Now company B filed amendment to approved I 140- My questions-
Is my I 140 still aproved or it will start all over?
I am planning to change the company coming October, Can I change the company at this stage. Will it affect my AOS in adverse way.
What
I need to take care of if I want to switch the job.
more...
ganguteli
05-29 12:48 AM
If you guys had a chance of getting substitute labor today you will try to take it at any cost. But you will not want to contribute $25 to IV. If you had a chance of getting a greencard via L1A route you will do it. Just because you cannot get a substitute labor or L1A, you are saying sour grapes.
This is a bitter truth that we do not like to hear but each will do if they get a chance. Sub labor was legal when it was there and L1A route is also legal today. It is for USCIS to decide if there is a loophole. Stop behaving like an anti-immigrant. Just because you are not able to get this privilege does not mean others cannot try. If you want to try, try to get more visas for everyone rather than blocking people.
This is a bitter truth that we do not like to hear but each will do if they get a chance. Sub labor was legal when it was there and L1A route is also legal today. It is for USCIS to decide if there is a loophole. Stop behaving like an anti-immigrant. Just because you are not able to get this privilege does not mean others cannot try. If you want to try, try to get more visas for everyone rather than blocking people.
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boreal
07-21 05:23 PM
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
..
Thanks for explaining how this works!! I only avoided them and never heard their pitches, but looks like they go through an awful lot. No wonder why they keep at it even if everyone avoids them like plague. Now I am feeling sorry for all the cold shoulders that i gave them so far. Anyway, those ppl have reduced in the bay area somewhat..I am here since more than ten years now and I have seen that the folks that keep pestering me out in the malls, Kohls, Target etc are dwindling. Maybe they are coming to their senses and learning that there are decent ways to earn money.
Having said all these, someone was suggesting that we maintain a central database and malign them further. Thats pure evil man! Why go to these extremes? Just ignore them and they will go their way - yeah they are a nuisance, but nothing more, right? They are still humans!
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
..
Thanks for explaining how this works!! I only avoided them and never heard their pitches, but looks like they go through an awful lot. No wonder why they keep at it even if everyone avoids them like plague. Now I am feeling sorry for all the cold shoulders that i gave them so far. Anyway, those ppl have reduced in the bay area somewhat..I am here since more than ten years now and I have seen that the folks that keep pestering me out in the malls, Kohls, Target etc are dwindling. Maybe they are coming to their senses and learning that there are decent ways to earn money.
Having said all these, someone was suggesting that we maintain a central database and malign them further. Thats pure evil man! Why go to these extremes? Just ignore them and they will go their way - yeah they are a nuisance, but nothing more, right? They are still humans!
more...
iv_only_hope
07-24 08:55 PM
vdlrao
I will post the calcs and see his response. Thanks.
I will post the calcs and see his response. Thanks.
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boreal
07-21 05:23 PM
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
..
Thanks for explaining how this works!! I only avoided them and never heard their pitches, but looks like they go through an awful lot. No wonder why they keep at it even if everyone avoids them like plague. Now I am feeling sorry for all the cold shoulders that i gave them so far. Anyway, those ppl have reduced in the bay area somewhat..I am here since more than ten years now and I have seen that the folks that keep pestering me out in the malls, Kohls, Target etc are dwindling. Maybe they are coming to their senses and learning that there are decent ways to earn money.
Having said all these, someone was suggesting that we maintain a central database and malign them further. Thats pure evil man! Why go to these extremes? Just ignore them and they will go their way - yeah they are a nuisance, but nothing more, right? They are still humans!
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
..
Thanks for explaining how this works!! I only avoided them and never heard their pitches, but looks like they go through an awful lot. No wonder why they keep at it even if everyone avoids them like plague. Now I am feeling sorry for all the cold shoulders that i gave them so far. Anyway, those ppl have reduced in the bay area somewhat..I am here since more than ten years now and I have seen that the folks that keep pestering me out in the malls, Kohls, Target etc are dwindling. Maybe they are coming to their senses and learning that there are decent ways to earn money.
Having said all these, someone was suggesting that we maintain a central database and malign them further. Thats pure evil man! Why go to these extremes? Just ignore them and they will go their way - yeah they are a nuisance, but nothing more, right? They are still humans!
more...
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villamonte6100
12-14 01:22 PM
Unfortunately, I am not a lawyer. I am a tech guy just like you. I wish I could help.
Our firm deals with corporate cases, either litigation or transactional, but not immigration. In fact, we hired an immigration lawyer to process my GC.
Are you a constitutional lawyer or maybe know someone who can help? Yes, we would appreciate knowledgeable input from experts.
Our firm deals with corporate cases, either litigation or transactional, but not immigration. In fact, we hired an immigration lawyer to process my GC.
Are you a constitutional lawyer or maybe know someone who can help? Yes, we would appreciate knowledgeable input from experts.
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nrk
09-15 04:42 PM
By seeing numbers, i am seeing a ray of hope with in one year i should hear some good news. Thanks for the R&D of all IV members
Here are my Estimate of pending EB2 India case for give years
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
Here are my Estimate of pending EB2 India case for give years
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
more...
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Subst_labor
03-17 10:32 PM
Subst_labor, you became an annonymous member today only to post this question. I am sure you must be a regular member of IV but created a new profile just for this question.
Why don't you tell us how much you bought your labor for? Show us a proof that you have not bought it.
I think I made a mistake of answering your post and apologize for that to all members. I also urge people not to answer anyone with substitute labor on this forum.
such people cut in line in front of us and don't even bother paying money to IV. Why should we give them free advice. If they can spend money buying labor for 20K they can spend hundred dollars and consult a lawyer and ask their question. It is with such mentaility they are brought up with in their country- Currption and getting things done with money. But never paying anyone for a just cause. In my country people contribute only when they fear god in temples, for medical treatment or to astrologers!!
I also urge moderators to close such threads on this forum whenever someone is diagnosed with a substitute labor cancer. Yes it is a cancer that is worsening retrogression further.
At least on this forum we can have the resolve to fight such people who are hurting most of us.
Now if someone argues with me on this post, then it will mean that either that person has himself bought a substitute labor or is looking for one. So don't even bother because a lot of members after reading this post will come hard on people who are ok with substitute labor on this forum.
Mr. Janak,
Do you understand English? First of all, i had mentioned, i am BEING offered, meaning i havent gone for the labor yet and even if i do there will be no buying or selling involved.
Second of all, i am sick and tired of stereotype Indians like you, who ASSUME everything without knowing anything and come out with your own theories from the bizzarro world [i know, pathetic loosers like to vent at any and every opportunities they get. Spare me your crap, if u dont know anything and cant help, then just stay quiet.]
Why don't you tell us how much you bought your labor for? Show us a proof that you have not bought it.
I think I made a mistake of answering your post and apologize for that to all members. I also urge people not to answer anyone with substitute labor on this forum.
such people cut in line in front of us and don't even bother paying money to IV. Why should we give them free advice. If they can spend money buying labor for 20K they can spend hundred dollars and consult a lawyer and ask their question. It is with such mentaility they are brought up with in their country- Currption and getting things done with money. But never paying anyone for a just cause. In my country people contribute only when they fear god in temples, for medical treatment or to astrologers!!
I also urge moderators to close such threads on this forum whenever someone is diagnosed with a substitute labor cancer. Yes it is a cancer that is worsening retrogression further.
At least on this forum we can have the resolve to fight such people who are hurting most of us.
Now if someone argues with me on this post, then it will mean that either that person has himself bought a substitute labor or is looking for one. So don't even bother because a lot of members after reading this post will come hard on people who are ok with substitute labor on this forum.
Mr. Janak,
Do you understand English? First of all, i had mentioned, i am BEING offered, meaning i havent gone for the labor yet and even if i do there will be no buying or selling involved.
Second of all, i am sick and tired of stereotype Indians like you, who ASSUME everything without knowing anything and come out with your own theories from the bizzarro world [i know, pathetic loosers like to vent at any and every opportunities they get. Spare me your crap, if u dont know anything and cant help, then just stay quiet.]
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spicy_guy
01-24 03:12 PM
I have been a silent reader of Murthy forum, and I have been observing JoeF's posts. He is NOT an anti-immigrant. He is just educating people about the law. That's what I see from his posts. He is knowledgeable enough to answer the questions of the forum readers.
Maybe his posts sound rude for the wounded and needy. But I think he isn't taking anything bad about immigration or prospective immigrants.
Anyways, thats not the topic of this thread and don't mean to detract.
Maybe his posts sound rude for the wounded and needy. But I think he isn't taking anything bad about immigration or prospective immigrants.
Anyways, thats not the topic of this thread and don't mean to detract.
more...
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vikki76
05-10 04:33 PM
Australia is backup option for me. For various personal reasons-I didn't chose Canada.
Cons of immigration to Canada
-Weather
-Dependency on US
-not very diverse society
Pros of Australia
-Weather
-Trading partners with N America,Europe,Asia
-Very very diverse society with east europeans,south east asians
As for job scene,I am thinking that both are almost same, but in Australia,indian firms have a major presence.It is cheaper to open an office in Melbourne than in Bangalore!.
Cons of immigration to Canada
-Weather
-Dependency on US
-not very diverse society
Pros of Australia
-Weather
-Trading partners with N America,Europe,Asia
-Very very diverse society with east europeans,south east asians
As for job scene,I am thinking that both are almost same, but in Australia,indian firms have a major presence.It is cheaper to open an office in Melbourne than in Bangalore!.
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shree19772000
08-03 01:24 PM
Hi All,
I am starting a new thread to clarify a roumour I heard that begining August 2006 the labour substitution is not possible. Can anyone confirm this please.
Thanks
I am starting a new thread to clarify a roumour I heard that begining August 2006 the labour substitution is not possible. Can anyone confirm this please.
Thanks
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villamonte6100
12-14 01:12 PM
I know. I work for a prestigious law firm and I know how hard it is to become a lawyer.
There was a thread some time back about people considering going to law school and becoming their own lawyers. What I took out of it was that its not that easy. Besides going to school, you have to pass some tough state exams. I am quite happy with my lawyer. I paid some dough but its much cheaper than going to law school, and saves me time and headache.
Going to law school is not for everyone, definitely not for me (fat books scares me :eek:). I like the suggestion by garybanz about getting a qualified opinion. Just so that we know.
There was a thread some time back about people considering going to law school and becoming their own lawyers. What I took out of it was that its not that easy. Besides going to school, you have to pass some tough state exams. I am quite happy with my lawyer. I paid some dough but its much cheaper than going to law school, and saves me time and headache.
Going to law school is not for everyone, definitely not for me (fat books scares me :eek:). I like the suggestion by garybanz about getting a qualified opinion. Just so that we know.
alisa
02-13 08:05 AM
This is great!!!
All my Indian friends who were fighting with me over the (1 or 2) unused EB-2 visas from ROW, well, you can have them my friends. I ain't getting any of them anyway.
All my Indian friends who were fighting with me over the (1 or 2) unused EB-2 visas from ROW, well, you can have them my friends. I ain't getting any of them anyway.
swo
07-12 09:29 PM
I have to tell you, I read this report in the paper when it was on the front page. While it may be true that some people are always impacted, those that have applied for Canadian PR after living in the states have been successful and had results in less than 2 years from beginning to end, and without the shadow of being employed by a given employer hanging over them.
No, sorry. It's just not typical. The Canadian "Backlog" does not even BEGIN to compare to the broken, extended, in-status, out-of-status, this form, that form, this queue, priority date, receipt date, labor cert workflow that is the US immigration system.
Reading this article you would think the Canadian system was a disaster. And yet, the amazing thing is, nowhere was there a mention of EXISTING problems with the US system. Just a criticism of the point system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada’s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 — With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada’s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy’s experience — and that of Canada’s immigration system — offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system’s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta’s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
“The points system is so inflexible,” said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. “We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.”
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada’s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada’s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada’s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. “It is not surprising that Canada’s bathtub is overflowing,” Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
“I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,” said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. “Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.”
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
“The system is very much broken,” Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. “It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,” Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
“If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,” he said, “that’s a problem.”
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
No, sorry. It's just not typical. The Canadian "Backlog" does not even BEGIN to compare to the broken, extended, in-status, out-of-status, this form, that form, this queue, priority date, receipt date, labor cert workflow that is the US immigration system.
Reading this article you would think the Canadian system was a disaster. And yet, the amazing thing is, nowhere was there a mention of EXISTING problems with the US system. Just a criticism of the point system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada’s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 — With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada’s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy’s experience — and that of Canada’s immigration system — offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system’s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta’s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
“The points system is so inflexible,” said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. “We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.”
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada’s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada’s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada’s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. “It is not surprising that Canada’s bathtub is overflowing,” Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
“I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,” said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. “Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.”
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
“The system is very much broken,” Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. “It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,” Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
“If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,” he said, “that’s a problem.”
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
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